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on this episode of skeptic oh you can

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keep your iPhone and all that as long as

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you accept the fact that your dead

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relatives might be listening in to your

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conversations and your iPhone might pop

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up with some weird message at any time

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because you might be getting some

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communications from angels or whatever

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so that is a very different kind of

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science than we've come to accept if

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anything it's really more of a

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traditional I think we'd call it like a

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magical world view you know that magic

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that you're talking about it had never

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happened to me like this until these

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incidents started happening with sorry

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after he died and for those who haven't

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read an atheist in heaven or don't know

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about it yet the first incident i'm

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going to tell you about lee was really

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just the first that happened the week of

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that tribute and there have been over a

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hundred since then stay with us for

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welcome to skeptic aware we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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i'm your host aleksic harrison on this

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episode you know i guess to paraphrase

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an old saying some of us go seeking

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after death communications others have

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after death communication thrust upon us

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I guess that would be the theme of

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today's show with our guest paul davids

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who's had an amazing string of after

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death communication experiences with a

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longtime friend and work colleague who

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is this kind of Hollywood legend in the

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movie business in the monster movie

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business Forry Ackerman so it's an

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interesting story it's also interesting

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that Paul goes about trying to unravel

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this mystery by taking a very scientific

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approach which many of us on skeptical

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would feel comfortable with but as

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you'll hear in this show I also think

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has some limits in terms of how far we

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can take this all in all it was a super

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interesting chat with a fascinating

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guest here's my conversation with paul

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davids today we welcome filmmaker and

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author paul davids too skeptical paul

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has some genuine hollywood bona fides i

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mean some real legitimate Hollywood

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credentials for writing producing and

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directing including a film that we're

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going to talk a lot about today the life

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after death project in which he follows

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the trail of a series of after death

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clues and communications left behind by

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his longtime friend and Hollywood sci-fi

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legend Forrest Ackerman who and this is

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the interesting twist on it Forrest

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Ackerman who is famous for his monster

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magazine that he edited for a long long

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time this guy's an atheist and very much

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of a non believer in the afterlife but

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seems to be from what we learned in the

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film and in the other interviews I've

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seen with Paul just a delightful guy in

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open-minded

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enough to promise to message back to his

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friends if he did reach the other side

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so for the rest of this just remarkable

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story let's welcome Paul David's here

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too skeptical Paul welcome and thanks so

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much for joining me hi Alex it's a real

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privilege to be on your show I see I'm

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in very good company judging by former

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guests that you've had well you're

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patting the resume let me tell you let's

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start by telling folks a little bit

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about your background and in particular

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what was going on in your life when

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these strange communications started

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coming through from a guy who was really

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a long time close friend of yours

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Forrest Ackerman well Alex first I just

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like to clarify something you talked

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about the movie the life after death

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project which i completed in 2013 and

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was on sci-fi and you know it's out

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there now it can be found anywhere DVD

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amazon prime but the reason we're

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looking at this again now is that I've

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just finished a book that I co-authored

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with Gary Schwartz that came out in

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April called an atheist in heaven the

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ultimate evidence for life after death

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and that book co-written with dr. Gary

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Schwartz went into much much more depth

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in all of the events phenomena and

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issues that were raised in the life

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after death project so that's sort of to

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clarify we're here because first there

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was this documentary film now there's

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this new book an atheist in heaven

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awesome I appreciate you clarifying that

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that's great and also what's hanging out

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there that I saw that I wasn't able

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quite to pin down is the life after

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death project part 2 if that's a good

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settled for those who get the DVD of

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life after death project it's a two DVD

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set the first the first show which is

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about an hour 40 minutes was on sci-fi

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channel part 2 was not and part 2 I put

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together a sequel because I had so much

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material so many people I had

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interviewed so many in

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edible incidents and facts that couldn't

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make it into the first one because it

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could go on forever and people don't

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appreciate necessarily to our movies so

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I created a second one called life after

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death project to personal encounters and

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I bring in the paranormal incidents

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related to afterlife that our

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experiences by many many different

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people and different walks of life so

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you you sort of walk down the lane there

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and hear that so many people have had

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these experiences they have similarities

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they also have differences and and I

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included an update on the Forrest J

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Ackerman case by the way we called we

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called first J Ackerman sorry everybody

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called him sorry and let's call him fari

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today when we're talking about him fair

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enough i'll let you lead with that so

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you know so great thanks for updating me

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on this book and atheists in heaven and

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I think the material that I've gathered

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is kind of similar but it's interesting

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them tell us maybe the sequence of

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events leading up to this experience

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that you had before E and then if that

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was really what sent you on this path

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kind of where you've been since then

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which you kind of covered a little bit

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but I'm kind of a little more interested

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in the back story of what exactly was

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going on with you when you started

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having these communications before well

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I had known fari for decades I met him

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when I was a thirteen-year-old boy I was

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a fan of Famous Monsters of Filmland

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magazine I love this man he was one of

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the pioneers of science fiction I think

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he was born in 1916 and he was one of

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the main promoters to bring science

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fiction into the mainstream because

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early on it was off in the fringes it

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was barely considered literature at all

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it wasn't really respected and today

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it's just taken over the world of

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entertainment and they are so much

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science fiction literature out there

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it's become very important sorry was at

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the forefront of that and he influenced

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just about every major personality who

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went forward to make a mark in in the

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whether it's in writing or in making

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films so sorry and I had known each

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other through the decades I had written

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for him on occasion he wrote a foreword

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for my first book and as he got old so

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he he was active into his 80s he died at

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92 but and was always the Atheist as you

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mentioned he was sort of a card-carrying

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atheist if there is such a thing and

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proud of it and he would write about the

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reasons for his atheism and why he

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didn't believe in life after death and

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he also didn't believe in any of the

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other phenomena you know he could rule

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out ghosts and zombies and the undead

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and whatever it was angels wasn't real

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for him it was all fiction and a lot of

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it was fiction he loved that that

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related to creatures monsters mummy's

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coming back to life all that kind of

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thing so a couple years before he died I

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wasn't the only one to sort of confront

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him others who were close to him did too

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and said fari you know you're really

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strong on this thing that there's no

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afterlife and you're Nathan you know

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what if you're wrong have you given any

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reconsideration to your ideas and he

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said no I'm going to be an atheist to

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the day I die to the day prince sirki

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takes me which was the way he expressed

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it but he said you know but if if it

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does turn out i'm wrong and he said this

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sort of with humor i said if i wake up

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to some big science fiction convention

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in the sky i'll be busy reuniting with

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all of my favorite horror and science

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fiction actors and of course my dear

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wife one day and he said well and when

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the party dies down he says if I can you

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know maybe I'll drop you a line let you

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know he said but don't count on it you

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know not not going to happen so that was

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the setup for for it he didn't believe

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in any of the stuff and he died December

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fourth of 2008

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it took a couple months for a tribute to

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be held because he he didn't want a

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funeral and he didn't want a memorial

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but he told his closest caretaker who

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had lived within the last 10 years and

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helped him in every respect fellow named

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Jomo Hawaiian guy he said Joe you know a

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tribute would be fine so a big big

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tribute was held for him at the egyptian

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theater in hollywood every seat was

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filled and there were many important

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speakers including his friend Ray

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Bradbury the great writer John Landis

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guillermo del toro peter jackson checked

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in by video from New Zealand and I was a

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speaker to my credentials in addition to

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the friendship I had produced films in

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the genre that one of the best known is

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called Roswell for Showtime about the

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flying saucer crash of 1947 and I wrote

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a number of this of the star wars books

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for Lucasfilm with my wife we wrote six

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sequels from the glove of Darth Vader

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through prophets of the dark side so I

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was very much part of the whole science

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fiction world anyway it was right

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actually the weekend of his tribute that

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the weird stuff started to happen and it

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didn't start with me it started with two

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Canadian filmmakers who had come down

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from Canada with their documentary they

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had made a by biography of Far East life

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which was shown at the tribute I won't

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go into detail about what happened to

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them first but they made it very clear

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to me and to others that after they

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visited his crypt and one of them

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wrapped on his crypt and said hello that

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they felt that within an hour they heard

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from him in ways we would call

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instrumental trance communication

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involving their computers the only thing

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I would interject is that among the

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various evidence that you compile and

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present which is really pretty

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remarkable especially the sum total of

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it but the two Canadian filmmakers I

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think it

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really one of the hardest ones to shake

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I mean especially for anyone who's

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technically inclined I love the part

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where the guy actually goes to post

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something on Facebook and you know a

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little we're all familiar with a little

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capture that comes up or you have to

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00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:28,240
verify that you're a human and enter in

274
00:12:33,090 --> 00:12:30,460
something and those we know are just

275
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these random collection of letters and

276
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:36,390
numbers and up on the screen pops

277
00:12:44,070 --> 00:12:41,050
ackerman with a capital A 000 I mean

278
00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:44,080
this is like not to be believed and yet

279
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:46,030
it's verified by his colleague who then

280
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:51,040
has his own unexplainable immediately it

281
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:52,840
happened to me a message came out of his

282
00:12:58,140 --> 00:12:55,360
computer a voice when they began to

283
00:13:02,490 --> 00:12:58,150
question whether fari was fari really

284
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:02,500
dead and and a voice out of his computer

285
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,510
said oh my gosh no way and and it was an

286
00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:10,000
animated emoticon that says that that

287
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:12,100
you could find on youtube but he wasn't

288
00:13:20,460 --> 00:13:14,170
logged onto YouTube and it wasn't at his

289
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:20,470
hard drive and as Ian Johnston as he was

290
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:24,250
the fellow who at that computer as he

291
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:25,570
said it my computer had no business

292
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:28,570
talking to me so that that kind of

293
00:13:34,950 --> 00:13:32,890
started started things out and for me I

294
00:13:37,380 --> 00:13:34,960
know you're very interested in science

295
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:37,390
Alex and you've got a book that says

296
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:38,950
science is wrong about almost everything

297
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:41,650
and I don't know if I would agree with

298
00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:45,210
the almost everything part of it but i

299
00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:48,220
do really agree that science has gotten

300
00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:50,230
so many things wrong in the past of

301
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:53,020
course science has tended to correct

302
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:55,090
itself through the years you know we do

303
00:13:59,130 --> 00:13:57,370
have aviation we can fly it is possible

304
00:14:01,050 --> 00:13:59,140
you know Rockets can go to the mood and

305
00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:01,060
all of these things views have changed

306
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:03,310
you know the earth isn't flat but

307
00:14:10,580 --> 00:14:05,680
science has gotten it wrong and enforced

308
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:10,590
its beliefs really enforced certain

309
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:14,110
attitudes and philosophies and beliefs

310
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:17,530
on whole populations of people and put

311
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:19,240
you in a position where you your

312
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:23,130
ridiculed if you don't go along with the

313
00:14:28,130 --> 00:14:24,690
to norm that's a really interesting

314
00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:28,140
point Paul because both in the film and

315
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,590
in this book and atheists in heaven the

316
00:14:37,070 --> 00:14:33,360
ultimate evidence for life after death

317
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:37,080
and the book and the film cover a lot of

318
00:14:41,510 --> 00:14:38,490
the same territory i know there's

319
00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:41,520
additional stuff in the book and I've

320
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:42,900
just kind of pulled that up here and

321
00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:45,090
it's it's interesting i look forward to

322
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,220
going through that but you touched on

323
00:14:53,270 --> 00:14:49,920
for me a really key point because you do

324
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:53,280
take a very scientifically inclined

325
00:14:59,690 --> 00:14:56,690
approach to this I mean Gary Schwartz as

326
00:15:02,570 --> 00:14:59,700
highly respected scientist folks you

327
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:02,580
know and he's Harvard he's the head of

328
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:04,650
the department at Yale and psychology

329
00:15:07,310 --> 00:15:06,090
and psychiatry I mean he's science

330
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:07,320
science science publishing in

331
00:15:10,670 --> 00:15:09,090
peer-reviewed papers currently a

332
00:15:12,290 --> 00:15:10,680
professor at University Arizona he's

333
00:15:13,870 --> 00:15:12,300
interviewed him a couple times on the

334
00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:13,880
show as well of some of his colleagues

335
00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:16,670
but here's the rub with that you know

336
00:15:23,180 --> 00:15:21,000
science is on the one hand so much part

337
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:23,190
of our life we live in a scientific

338
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:25,590
world and we want scientific

339
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:28,560
explanations for things but on the other

340
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:30,600
hand in I think the movie and the book

341
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:33,810
just touch on this the life after death

342
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:37,740
hypothesis that you lay out kinda render

343
00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:41,610
science meaningless in that once we step

344
00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:44,790
over and cross into that understanding

345
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:47,670
that life continues that consciousness

346
00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:49,770
continues and that that consciousness

347
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:51,630
which is what the movie and the book is

348
00:15:59,690 --> 00:15:55,290
all about has the ability to impact our

349
00:16:03,380 --> 00:15:59,700
physical reality here then everything

350
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:03,390
that science seems to know kind of gets

351
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:06,000
very fuzzy and yeah you can keep your

352
00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:08,370
iPhone and all that just as long as you

353
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:09,900
accept the fact that your dead relatives

354
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:11,220
may be listening in to your

355
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:13,770
conversations and your iPhone might pop

356
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:15,690
up with some weird message at any time

357
00:16:18,860 --> 00:16:17,010
because you might be getting some

358
00:16:22,190 --> 00:16:18,870
communications from angels or whatever

359
00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:22,200
so that is a very different kind of

360
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:24,750
science then we've come to accept if

361
00:16:28,370 --> 00:16:26,330
anything it's really more of a

362
00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:28,380
traditional I think we'd call it like a

363
00:16:32,780 --> 00:16:30,540
magical world view you know where hey

364
00:16:36,020 --> 00:16:32,790
there are these competing forces and

365
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:36,030
some of them look a lot like our reality

366
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:37,050
here but some of

367
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:39,450
outside of that and we're balancing and

368
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:41,940
mixing those so have you given any

369
00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:44,040
thought to that Paul I mean oh yeah

370
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:46,620
absolutely you know two things I wanted

371
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:47,850
to say about that because you mentioned

372
00:16:56,630 --> 00:16:50,310
this sort of magical sense about what

373
00:17:00,139 --> 00:16:56,640
RIA real reality maybe the you know that

374
00:17:03,650 --> 00:17:00,149
magic that you're talking about it's it

375
00:17:06,020 --> 00:17:03,660
had never happened to me like this until

376
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:06,030
these incidents started happening with

377
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:11,010
sorry after he died and for those who

378
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:13,050
haven't read an atheist in heaven or

379
00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:15,569
don't know about it yet the first

380
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:16,980
incident i'm going to tell you about it

381
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:19,199
was really just the first that happened

382
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:20,760
the week of that tribute and there have

383
00:17:24,860 --> 00:17:22,770
been over a hundred since then and

384
00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:24,870
they're all documented in the book

385
00:17:30,970 --> 00:17:27,959
there's a glossary there was simply a

386
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:30,980
massive number of things that happened

387
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:35,610
to me since 2009 that I either could not

388
00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:40,980
explain in some cases science could not

389
00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:42,780
explain and because there was physical

390
00:17:46,790 --> 00:17:44,520
evidence that i was able to take to top

391
00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:46,800
scientists and they really really worked

392
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:49,350
on it and really were baffled and in one

393
00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:52,050
case one of the scientists was I think

394
00:17:56,419 --> 00:17:54,120
you have to say sort of haunted after he

395
00:17:58,130 --> 00:17:56,429
began working on this because the same

396
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:58,140
kinds of strange things that had been

397
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:01,200
happening to me happened to him now but

398
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:04,290
they don't happen all the time and it

399
00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:08,160
sort of comes and goes and when it's not

400
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:09,809
happening you know your rational mind

401
00:18:15,980 --> 00:18:14,730
comes into play and my skepticism you

402
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:15,990
know it's always there at a certain

403
00:18:20,540 --> 00:18:18,360
level I mean you always have to look to

404
00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:20,550
look at whatever phenomena that you

405
00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:22,380
think is really important and say wait a

406
00:18:26,419 --> 00:18:25,110
minute am I interpreting it right you

407
00:18:31,730 --> 00:18:26,429
know did I really see what I thought I

408
00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:31,740
did and usually the answer is uh yes you

409
00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:33,540
saw what you but usually doesn't really

410
00:18:37,370 --> 00:18:35,550
work in that sentence I mean that this

411
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:37,380
is I guess the point I'm kind of driving

412
00:18:41,780 --> 00:18:38,880
home here is that yeah it really

413
00:18:43,850 --> 00:18:41,790
requires a fundamental worldview shift

414
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:43,860
and I think a lot of times yeah what we

415
00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:45,600
all do is we want to have one foot in

416
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:47,790
both worlds we want to say well I took

417
00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:49,710
it to these scientists and they could

418
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:50,830
explain some of it

419
00:18:55,139 --> 00:18:52,750
they couldn't explain all of it that's

420
00:18:58,889 --> 00:18:55,149
not how science works if science cannot

421
00:19:01,590 --> 00:18:58,899
explain it if it's outside the realm of

422
00:19:03,299 --> 00:19:01,600
what could possibly be explained and if

423
00:19:06,509 --> 00:19:03,309
the evidence piles up that it totally

424
00:19:09,180 --> 00:19:06,519
shatters the world view then you gotta

425
00:19:11,789 --> 00:19:09,190
shift but I think we all want to have a

426
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:11,799
foot in both worlds i mean we like the

427
00:19:17,789 --> 00:19:14,710
comfort of the regularity of these

428
00:19:20,279 --> 00:19:17,799
things but i wonder to what extent has

429
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,289
this changed you in terms of saying you

430
00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:22,480
know i can kind of play this reality

431
00:19:26,779 --> 00:19:24,460
game but in my heart of hearts I know

432
00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:26,789
that there's a dramatically different

433
00:19:30,779 --> 00:19:28,840
reality that I'm embedded in that I

434
00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:30,789
don't fully understand but that I have

435
00:19:35,549 --> 00:19:32,980
to just kind of weighed my way through

436
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:35,559
yeah I've undergone a massive change

437
00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:37,570
because of this alex i mean the the

438
00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:45,220
desire to reject it and continually look

439
00:19:50,009 --> 00:19:47,350
for other explanations gary Schwartz's

440
00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:50,019
chapter about that in here it's kind of

441
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:53,230
a natural ingrained human desire to

442
00:19:57,090 --> 00:19:55,450
question you know to question your own

443
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:57,100
sanity when something happens that you

444
00:20:01,529 --> 00:19:59,440
really have always believed is just

445
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:01,539
impossible and that is what happened to

446
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:04,480
me so I have gone through this great

447
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:07,600
shift where in one of the chapters late

448
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:10,870
in the book I explained you know I give

449
00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:15,730
up I can't I I can't use my rational

450
00:20:21,299 --> 00:20:17,230
mind each time one of these things

451
00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:21,309
happens to try to maintain the same

452
00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:23,320
order in the universe that you know that

453
00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:24,760
I was always used to you know for my

454
00:20:30,269 --> 00:20:28,750
first 40 years or so and the reasons are

455
00:20:33,990 --> 00:20:30,279
many well I've been through a hundred

456
00:20:36,389 --> 00:20:34,000
experiences of strange things of many

457
00:20:39,269 --> 00:20:36,399
different varieties and let me just sort

458
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:39,279
of rattle off the category list now

459
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:40,809
because it includes instrumental trans

460
00:20:45,269 --> 00:20:43,510
communication which is communication

461
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:45,279
through instrumentality which would be

462
00:20:54,529 --> 00:20:51,059
either computers telephones video tape

463
00:20:59,250 --> 00:20:54,539
you know recordings of various kinds

464
00:21:03,180 --> 00:20:59,260
I've had experiences with mediums who

465
00:21:04,610 --> 00:21:03,190
have been vetted by Gary Schwartz see

466
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:04,620
who's studied medium

467
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:06,690
and tries to eliminate the wheat from

468
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:10,890
the chaff he he eliminates the wannabes

469
00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:12,930
and those who think they have the

470
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:15,240
ability or are just fooling themselves

471
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:17,880
and and yet there are some who really

472
00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:19,130
really do have the ability

473
00:21:24,740 --> 00:21:22,350
unquestionably definitely regardless of

474
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:24,750
what Michael Shermer tells you or the

475
00:21:31,010 --> 00:21:28,170
amazing Randi they are wrong yes there

476
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:31,020
is a psychic ability and it does

477
00:21:37,340 --> 00:21:33,390
sometimes manifest through mediumship

478
00:21:39,500 --> 00:21:37,350
I've had synchronicities so many of them

479
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:39,510
that are so improbable one after the

480
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:42,360
other that it's almost like being struck

481
00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:44,130
by lightning it's that one in a billion

482
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:45,660
chance that keeps happening and

483
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:47,250
happening and happening that relates in

484
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:49,950
some way specifically to fari and you

485
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:52,050
can't explain it the other thing

486
00:21:57,580 --> 00:21:54,809
category of phenomena would be what i

487
00:22:01,299 --> 00:21:57,590
call the strictly physical phenomena

488
00:22:05,419 --> 00:22:01,309
again you can't deny it when an object

489
00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:05,429
moves in a house in your in your own

490
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:07,230
house the the doors have been locked you

491
00:22:11,150 --> 00:22:09,330
went out for lunch and it's not a

492
00:22:13,790 --> 00:22:11,160
question of a window being open and the

493
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:13,800
wind blowing something across a room no

494
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:16,770
objects will move them around they will

495
00:22:22,850 --> 00:22:21,000
disappear a mask will pop off the wall

496
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:22,860
in front of a lot of people at the

497
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:26,130
punchline to a joke a mask of Far East

498
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:29,970
face you know moved across the room so

499
00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:34,740
but i think the the most important of

500
00:22:38,540 --> 00:22:36,600
all the physical phenomena for me was

501
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:38,550
the one that started at all and that had

502
00:22:44,030 --> 00:22:42,090
to do with chemistry and ink and if

503
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:44,040
there are chemists listening to your

504
00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:47,850
show today Alex I plead with every

505
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:49,590
chemist who comes across this

506
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:52,559
information to read an atheist in heaven

507
00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,650
because this will get to you this will

508
00:23:00,500 --> 00:22:57,600
get under your skin and challenge the

509
00:23:04,220 --> 00:23:00,510
scientific worldview through strict

510
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:04,230
Orthodox approaches to forensic chemical

511
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:06,450
analysis well hold on before you said

512
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:09,090
because I appreciate that and folks will

513
00:23:13,310 --> 00:23:11,490
find that in the book but I think it's

514
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:13,320
interesting you referenced Michael

515
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:14,910
Shermer a couple times and he's been

516
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:17,010
about to show a couple times and

517
00:23:21,410 --> 00:23:19,320
I don't know why we all keep talking to

518
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:21,420
Michael Shermer but we do and that's

519
00:23:25,730 --> 00:23:23,430
kind of how our culture works and how we

520
00:23:29,050 --> 00:23:25,740
have these people in little Alex you

521
00:23:33,260 --> 00:23:29,060
always need a chief adversary or

522
00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:33,270
boogeyman to measure your I suppose I

523
00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:35,460
mean you're the film director so you

524
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,590
know better the arc of the story and the

525
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:39,600
different archetypes that have to play

526
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:41,610
there they're different roles but I do

527
00:23:46,010 --> 00:23:44,490
think it's interesting what he says in

528
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:46,020
response to that I mean he's an

529
00:23:49,490 --> 00:23:47,760
interesting figure in a couple of ways

530
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:49,500
one because in I'm sure you know this

531
00:23:55,220 --> 00:23:52,370
but he's had a very strange after death

532
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:55,230
communication experience which yeah one

533
00:23:58,910 --> 00:23:57,450
hand he's documented and on the other

534
00:24:00,920 --> 00:23:58,920
hand and this is what he says in your

535
00:24:03,380 --> 00:24:00,930
film and I just saw the introduction

536
00:24:07,370 --> 00:24:03,390
your book he's in there as well he says

537
00:24:08,630 --> 00:24:07,380
hey and this is a bizarre statement so

538
00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:08,640
let me let me just say it but I'm gonna

539
00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:10,710
try and deliver it at the straight face

540
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,580
he says hey you know strange things do

541
00:24:19,370 --> 00:24:16,320
happen these one-off things do happen

542
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:19,380
and we just have to not worry about him

543
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:23,700
and kind of go on and I think that this

544
00:24:29,150 --> 00:24:27,090
is a worldview issue this is like a

545
00:24:32,030 --> 00:24:29,160
religious issue and it's something that

546
00:24:33,770 --> 00:24:32,040
we it's so wrong well it's no more of a

547
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:33,780
mistake than to touch on to your other

548
00:24:38,810 --> 00:24:35,850
work of you know the Lost years Jesus

549
00:24:42,050 --> 00:24:38,820
it's no more of a mistake than for a

550
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:42,060
Christian to be kind of confronted with

551
00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:45,210
you know the historical facts that have

552
00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:47,070
been dug up or the NAG Hammadi library

553
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:49,950
and whatever and say you know I can hear

554
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:52,530
all that but I choose to believe this

555
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:54,210
and I'm just going to ignore all that

556
00:25:00,200 --> 00:24:56,490
and continue to believe that so my point

557
00:25:02,780 --> 00:25:00,210
is I think we confront this all the time

558
00:25:06,410 --> 00:25:02,790
and I think it's more of a worldview

559
00:25:08,690 --> 00:25:06,420
issue than it is a chemistry issue or

560
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:08,700
Gary Schwartz use an awesome job you

561
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:10,650
know when the photons in the box

562
00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:12,480
communication and all that kind of stuff

563
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:15,180
that will appeal to some people but at

564
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:17,460
the end of the day this isn't this

565
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:20,910
really about worldview about beliefs

566
00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:23,820
about what makes us feel comfortable to

567
00:25:30,770 --> 00:25:27,630
sleep at night yes psychologically in

568
00:25:33,650 --> 00:25:30,780
terms of human consciousness yes it does

569
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:33,660
it does come down to that because look

570
00:25:37,730 --> 00:25:35,970
one of the things Michael Shermer said

571
00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:37,740
about the life after death question he

572
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:41,430
said look I'm not against it he said you

573
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:44,010
know what why should why should anybody

574
00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:45,690
be against there being an afterlife

575
00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:48,150
doesn't mean you necessarily believe it

576
00:25:56,510 --> 00:25:50,550
it just because you'd like it to be true

577
00:25:58,910 --> 00:25:56,520
but for me it is true now and it wasn't

578
00:26:01,630 --> 00:25:58,920
throughout my whole life it wasn't I was

579
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:01,640
one of those objective rational

580
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:04,650
materialists you know Princeton educated

581
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:07,170
science background originally pre-med

582
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:10,140
you know organic chemistry all the rest

583
00:26:18,050 --> 00:26:14,700
of it no I had to be beaten down by life

584
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:18,060
experience right to come to the

585
00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:21,090
conclusion that there's much much more

586
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,870
going on here in this world we live in

587
00:26:29,230 --> 00:26:26,880
and you don't have to say the universe

588
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:29,240
you can just say right here on earth

589
00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:33,930
then most people ever genuinely imagine

590
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:36,660
right and I'm totally with you I am very

591
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,840
very much the same and a lot of beating

592
00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:41,940
down like you said a lot of beating down

593
00:26:46,130 --> 00:26:43,980
and continuing to be re-educated

594
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:46,140
re-educating than rejecting and back and

595
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:47,130
forth and we've been through that

596
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:49,410
process what do you think about only

597
00:26:54,290 --> 00:26:51,570
just throw this on the table what do you

598
00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:54,300
think about people who and I'm always

599
00:26:58,100 --> 00:26:55,860
amazed by folks who do this but there's

600
00:27:01,060 --> 00:26:58,110
many who just don't worry about that

601
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:01,070
they just have an experience or have a

602
00:27:04,910 --> 00:27:03,210
generally have an experience but

603
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:04,920
sometimes it's not even that profound of

604
00:27:09,530 --> 00:27:07,140
an experience and just go well that's it

605
00:27:11,660 --> 00:27:09,540
you know angels are real I have guiding

606
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:11,670
guardian angels and they seem to work in

607
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:13,770
my life I have these synchronicities

608
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:15,450
they seem to work in my life hey that's

609
00:27:21,050 --> 00:27:19,020
it so from a worldview belief standpoint

610
00:27:23,180 --> 00:27:21,060
we have to acknowledge it those folks

611
00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:23,190
are out there as well and I don't know I

612
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:24,660
mean I've over the years I'd be

613
00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:25,710
interested in your opinion over the

614
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:28,590
years Paul I've come to gain more

615
00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:31,530
respect for really where those people

616
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:33,270
are coming from because I see my

617
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:36,750
position is not being all that different

618
00:27:40,970 --> 00:27:38,700
I mean I'm just compiling this

619
00:27:43,550 --> 00:27:40,980
information and chugging it through my

620
00:27:43,910 --> 00:27:43,560
you know rigorous logical kind of thing

621
00:27:45,980 --> 00:27:43,920
but

622
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:45,990
the end of the day it's all just about

623
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:48,570
how we're processing our life experience

624
00:27:57,380 --> 00:27:53,490
isn't it it is it really is and I think

625
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:57,390
that direct personal experience which we

626
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:00,960
can't predict we can't make it happen we

627
00:28:04,910 --> 00:28:02,970
might want it to happen I mean a lot of

628
00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:04,920
people would like to see a UFO right and

629
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:07,140
they never have one of those is Stanton

630
00:28:11,420 --> 00:28:08,730
Friedman who's one of the world

631
00:28:14,980 --> 00:28:11,430
authorities on UFOs and he's a physicist

632
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:14,990
he's never seen one he believes in them

633
00:28:20,330 --> 00:28:17,580
totally and passionately which to me is

634
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:20,340
always more impressive yeah well he says

635
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:22,200
he says I've never I've never seen a

636
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:23,970
molecule either but I know that

637
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:27,110
molecules exist i've ever seen an atom

638
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:30,600
so the mine deduces things from what it

639
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,440
sees around it and what the individual

640
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:36,960
experiences and all of our experiences

641
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:39,290
are different now for the person who is

642
00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:43,740
drowning and suddenly an angel appears

643
00:28:49,550 --> 00:28:47,100
and saves them and then they're on the

644
00:28:51,890 --> 00:28:49,560
shore and their life has been saved and

645
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:51,900
they saw the angel well who's going to

646
00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:53,610
question that I mean maybe some people

647
00:28:57,970 --> 00:28:56,280
will but I see I believe it when I hear

648
00:29:01,070 --> 00:28:57,980
that from people I've heard about

649
00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:01,080
angelic intervention I never would have

650
00:29:05,770 --> 00:29:02,790
believed it for the first 40 years of my

651
00:29:08,150 --> 00:29:05,780
life for so I just would have said well

652
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:08,160
I'd have to see it I'd have to

653
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:09,600
experience it and that's the unfortunate

654
00:29:19,250 --> 00:29:14,130
thing I have experienced this now and

655
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:19,260
I've done everything I can to document

656
00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:21,510
everything that's happened when i say

657
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:23,070
have experienced it it's not you know

658
00:29:30,050 --> 00:29:25,710
something angelic necessarily what I've

659
00:29:33,890 --> 00:29:30,060
experienced is that Forry Ackerman who

660
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:33,900
was a humorist he was a prankster and he

661
00:29:39,410 --> 00:29:37,170
knew me very well and he liked me a lot

662
00:29:42,410 --> 00:29:39,420
you know he kept me around as a friend

663
00:29:46,300 --> 00:29:42,420
for four decades we had something

664
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:46,310
together and what I've come to

665
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:51,440
understand is that his consciousness his

666
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:55,080
ability to interact with me it's still

667
00:30:00,919 --> 00:29:57,450
here it hasn't vanished be

668
00:30:04,930 --> 00:30:00,929
cuz he's died because he has done many

669
00:30:09,379 --> 00:30:04,940
physical things that relate to him very

670
00:30:11,419 --> 00:30:09,389
specifically um often when I'm thinking

671
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:11,429
about him or doing something that

672
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:14,610
relates to him these things will just

673
00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:18,090
will suddenly happen and it's I'm always

674
00:30:24,110 --> 00:30:22,110
astonished um but I try to train myself

675
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,120
now to be less astonished you know to

676
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:27,120
just to just go with it flow with it

677
00:30:33,379 --> 00:30:30,570
accept it it's real it is real and I the

678
00:30:34,940 --> 00:30:33,389
mission I'm on is to help people who may

679
00:30:38,060 --> 00:30:34,950
have been where I was during those 40

680
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,070
years of doubt and disbelief right to

681
00:30:43,450 --> 00:30:40,320
understand that it is real and why I

682
00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:43,460
think that it's completely logical to

683
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:45,990
come to that conclusion now that the

684
00:30:51,169 --> 00:30:48,690
evidence is all around us and in an

685
00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:51,179
atheist in heaven my god the book is

686
00:30:56,330 --> 00:30:52,830
five hundred and fourteen pages

687
00:30:59,389 --> 00:30:56,340
including the glossary index two authors

688
00:31:02,269 --> 00:30:59,399
me and Gary Schwartz each with our own

689
00:31:04,490 --> 00:31:02,279
sections of the book and contributions

690
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:04,500
from one of the top chemists who worked

691
00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:08,010
on the key mystery in the Far ackerman

692
00:31:13,090 --> 00:31:09,960
case and I'm talking about dr. john

693
00:31:17,889 --> 00:31:13,100
allison chemist from New Jersey a

694
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:17,899
professor the work that went into

695
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:20,250
recording it all documenting at all I

696
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:23,070
mean why do it we did it for science we

697
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:25,250
did it for the advancement of knowledge

698
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:28,260
you don't expect to make you know you

699
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:30,090
could grow rich off of something like

700
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:33,570
this but there was dedication and a

701
00:31:39,019 --> 00:31:36,450
feeling of the need to do it and and me

702
00:31:41,389 --> 00:31:39,029
and my part a sense of responsibility

703
00:31:45,139 --> 00:31:41,399
and that was it it came down to the fact

704
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:45,149
that Afari has survived as he's making

705
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:48,210
it obvious that he has and he's going to

706
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:50,460
all this trouble to continually remind

707
00:31:57,129 --> 00:31:54,240
me of that and give me incidents that I

708
00:32:00,889 --> 00:31:57,139
can point to talk about other people to

709
00:32:05,779 --> 00:32:00,899
take in the laboratories for scientists

710
00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:05,789
to struggle with and and prove these

711
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:07,950
things if he's going to all that trouble

712
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:10,860
then my responsibility is

713
00:32:16,850 --> 00:32:14,670
and has been recorded all presented in

714
00:32:18,350 --> 00:32:16,860
the most coherent possible way so first

715
00:32:21,289 --> 00:32:18,360
there was the movie the life after death

716
00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:21,299
project and that was a logical way to

717
00:32:25,310 --> 00:32:22,950
start because things were happening in

718
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:25,320
laboratories that I could film people

719
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:27,390
were making themselves available to me

720
00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:29,520
the who I could interview including the

721
00:32:35,900 --> 00:32:32,790
great author Richard Matheson and then

722
00:32:37,940 --> 00:32:35,910
in the aftermath of that was the advice

723
00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:37,950
from academic people saying look you've

724
00:32:42,049 --> 00:32:39,960
got scientific reports you've got

725
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:42,059
studies you've got the things that went

726
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:44,970
on in those laboratories and all of the

727
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:46,710
details that are missing from your movie

728
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:50,010
it needs to be a book that we can hold

729
00:32:54,530 --> 00:32:52,230
in our lap give us an index give us a

730
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:54,540
glossary let us give us something we can

731
00:32:58,490 --> 00:32:57,090
study so we can really absorb the whole

732
00:33:01,970 --> 00:32:58,500
thing and take it seriously in an

733
00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:01,980
academic sense so I really am spending a

734
00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:05,280
lot of energy to appeal to and draw the

735
00:33:12,140 --> 00:33:10,020
attention I hope of the skeptics the

736
00:33:15,409 --> 00:33:12,150
scientific community those who would

737
00:33:17,570 --> 00:33:15,419
normally just dismiss this I'm saying I

738
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:17,580
want to open the store for you I have

739
00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:20,130
the way I have the way to show you

740
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:23,190
because the way in through this door is

741
00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:25,770
through the logical mind the scientific

742
00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:27,630
mind we can get there to these

743
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:29,160
conclusions through the scientific

744
00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:31,440
research we've already gotten there I've

745
00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:33,240
been on that path myself for eight years

746
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:35,790
and followed it many of the same ways

747
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:38,700
that you did and am constantly hammering

748
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:40,740
on the science as we know it types and

749
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:42,570
you know people have written the people

750
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:44,970
who still right now I just just

751
00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:47,240
interviewed Sean Carroll who you know

752
00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:50,760
unbelievably ridiculous with the

753
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:52,200
nincompoop agree that life is

754
00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:53,730
meaningless and none of this stuff is

755
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:55,950
real and is completely ignorant about

756
00:33:59,270 --> 00:33:57,720
the research and yet you look on amazon

757
00:34:03,049 --> 00:33:59,280
in his book as a number one bestseller

758
00:34:06,590 --> 00:34:03,059
in science so me we're not going to turn

759
00:34:08,990 --> 00:34:06,600
that ship is kind of where I was kind of

760
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,000
going with my last Brandt to you is it

761
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:11,520
it's it's a religious belief system it's

762
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:13,590
the same ways you know let's go out and

763
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:14,850
convert religious people either

764
00:34:19,369 --> 00:34:17,520
Christian Jewish Islamic whatever let's

765
00:34:21,619 --> 00:34:19,379
convert them you know I mean yeah lets

766
00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:21,629
you don't do that it's just folly I mean

767
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:23,250
you can't do it there's plenty of people

768
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:24,030
to do it but

769
00:34:29,149 --> 00:34:25,169
we kind of realized that at another

770
00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:29,159
level it's approaching people from the

771
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:31,470
wrong way and because one of the lessons

772
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:34,320
we get out of this is we don't know what

773
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:36,810
journey these other people are on you

774
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:38,850
know you mentioned early on it's just a

775
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:42,210
throwaway point that I think is key to

776
00:34:47,810 --> 00:34:45,150
this whole thing and you say hey about

777
00:34:50,330 --> 00:34:47,820
for ease comments to you that I'll drop

778
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,340
you a line but don't count on it and you

779
00:34:56,419 --> 00:34:53,040
go that was the setup well who set that

780
00:34:57,950 --> 00:34:56,429
up who set that up I mean are one of the

781
00:35:00,140 --> 00:34:57,960
things that we understand was soon as we

782
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:00,150
understand that consciousness extends

783
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:01,890
beyond bodily death and I agree with you

784
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:04,560
that is the biggest step for anyone to

785
00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:07,650
make but that would suggest that this

786
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:11,220
was set up that there was some direction

787
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:13,890
some force beforehand again we cannot

788
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:16,650
really grasp or touch or understand but

789
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:20,160
the the evidence of that is overwhelming

790
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:22,110
both the anecdotal evidence and then if

791
00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:23,730
you want to break it down into science I

792
00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:28,380
mean some of the most well replicated

793
00:35:34,610 --> 00:35:31,670
and published research on presentiment

794
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:34,620
suggests that our understanding of time

795
00:35:39,650 --> 00:35:36,810
our experience of time is not what we

796
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:39,660
think it is and that things we do know

797
00:35:44,990 --> 00:35:42,210
things in quote-unquote before they even

798
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:45,000
happen so of course we would have to

799
00:35:51,590 --> 00:35:47,730
throw on the table that for ii was

800
00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:51,600
playing out some drama in while he was

801
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:54,060
alive being the well and it was a drum a

802
00:35:58,760 --> 00:35:56,370
lot larger than he could see himself at

803
00:36:00,380 --> 00:35:58,770
that time complete so here's my here's

804
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:00,390
my question i rambled on for a long time

805
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:02,490
here's my question I think maybe we'll

806
00:36:06,830 --> 00:36:04,710
kind of head towards the the home gate

807
00:36:09,770 --> 00:36:06,840
with this but you know this is

808
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:09,780
remarkable work important work and I

809
00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:13,260
love what you've brought to it so where

810
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:16,020
should it go where would you like to see

811
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:19,470
beyond important distinction here beyond

812
00:36:24,830 --> 00:36:22,380
the after-death communication Israel

813
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:24,840
life extends f consciousness survives

814
00:36:29,060 --> 00:36:26,940
bodily death which i think you and i

815
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:29,070
agree is the most important step for

816
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:31,050
most people to take but here's the

817
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:33,270
question with regard to quote unquote

818
00:36:40,309 --> 00:36:37,170
science what would you like to see

819
00:36:42,049 --> 00:36:40,319
an to do for the next step because we

820
00:36:44,059 --> 00:36:42,059
can go into Gary's lab and we can see

821
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:44,069
the photon thing that says we can

822
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:47,010
communicate but I mean what do we what

823
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:49,890
do we do with that do we ask what we

824
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:51,780
should be doing here what we should do

825
00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:53,790
with the planet do we ask what the

826
00:36:57,980 --> 00:36:55,950
message is it should we go down that

827
00:37:01,789 --> 00:36:57,990
path or should we use it just to reflect

828
00:37:03,770 --> 00:37:01,799
on our own life and enhance our personal

829
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:03,780
connection to other people which is what

830
00:37:07,099 --> 00:37:05,609
all the Mystics say they say forget

831
00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:07,109
about all the technology forget about

832
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:08,520
all the bells and whistles and the

833
00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:11,490
fireworks going off just love each other

834
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:13,500
and try and find that connection in your

835
00:37:16,940 --> 00:37:15,210
daily life and all the big stuff doesn't

836
00:37:19,130 --> 00:37:16,950
matter what is your thought on the

837
00:37:21,319 --> 00:37:19,140
really really big questions in terms of

838
00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:21,329
what do we do with this well I think

839
00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:23,430
it's a little of all the things that

840
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:26,900
you've talked about I'm not sure that

841
00:37:32,809 --> 00:37:29,510
the you know let's all love one another

842
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:32,819
the final conclusion that's a it's a

843
00:37:38,539 --> 00:37:35,609
good and easy conclusion for it is the

844
00:37:40,670 --> 00:37:38,549
overwhelming message from the near-death

845
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:40,680
experience science and what I think is

846
00:37:43,849 --> 00:37:41,520
interesting about the near death

847
00:37:46,130 --> 00:37:43,859
experience Sciences everyone focuses on

848
00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:46,140
did they see deceased relatives and did

849
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:47,880
they cross over and how long was the

850
00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:50,400
resuscitation over and over again if you

851
00:37:53,299 --> 00:37:51,390
read those accounts and there's

852
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:53,309
thousands of them what they come back

853
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:57,000
and say it's about love I experienced

854
00:38:00,740 --> 00:37:58,770
this higher being and what they told me

855
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:00,750
is it's about love you go to talk to

856
00:38:05,180 --> 00:38:02,250
people had the psychedelic experience

857
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:05,190
the you know overwhelmingly it's about

858
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:07,260
love mediums their communication

859
00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:09,240
overwhelmingly I've talked to many of

860
00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:10,200
them talked to some of the best

861
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:12,900
researchers and to including Julie Julie

862
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:14,910
by shell you know former associate of

863
00:38:18,740 --> 00:38:17,430
Gary and spoken to Gary many times it's

864
00:38:21,289 --> 00:38:18,750
about love it's about love it's about

865
00:38:23,089 --> 00:38:21,299
love so just leave it well I'm not going

866
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:23,099
to argue with love you know I've been

867
00:38:28,940 --> 00:38:25,980
I've been married longer than George

868
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:28,950
Burns and Gracie Allen were married very

869
00:38:33,799 --> 00:38:31,710
long Hollywood marriage so I know about

870
00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:33,809
love and I have a wonderful family and

871
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:35,460
I'm not going to argue about love

872
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:37,049
because the Beatles taught me so much

873
00:38:42,530 --> 00:38:39,210
about it and the name of that show in

874
00:38:45,829 --> 00:38:42,540
las vegas called love is you know one of

875
00:38:48,740 --> 00:38:45,839
my favorite things but but i think there

876
00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:48,750
are other aspects to the the point you

877
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:50,870
were racing terms of what we what we

878
00:38:59,470 --> 00:38:55,130
do with this because I think there needs

879
00:39:02,020 --> 00:38:59,480
to be a changed attitude more of an open

880
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:02,030
door from from science and scientists so

881
00:39:06,850 --> 00:39:04,720
that there can be research because

882
00:39:10,690 --> 00:39:06,860
science isn't going to progress without

883
00:39:13,870 --> 00:39:10,700
the research it needs to be the

884
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:13,880
possibility of grants and acceptance of

885
00:39:19,660 --> 00:39:16,570
the research and academic level as

886
00:39:22,570 --> 00:39:19,670
something that's legitimate whereas

887
00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:22,580
right now we're living in a world where

888
00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:26,950
pretty much the door is slammed and

889
00:39:35,290 --> 00:39:32,180
someone's credibility is harmed if they

890
00:39:37,810 --> 00:39:35,300
get too deeply into this or they are

891
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:37,820
accused of delving into the occult and

892
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:43,430
that offends many people's religions or

893
00:39:55,510 --> 00:39:49,840
their ridiculed they're made to be cooks

894
00:39:58,690 --> 00:39:55,520
society at large rejects rejects them

895
00:40:00,250 --> 00:39:58,700
because of their interests and I'm not

896
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:00,260
even say their beliefs it's the

897
00:40:05,010 --> 00:40:02,060
conclusions they've come to that there's

898
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:05,020
merit to all of this and something real

899
00:40:11,550 --> 00:40:08,000
if communication between the living and

900
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:11,560
dead is a fact and I think it is I

901
00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:14,270
absolutely think that at least the

902
00:40:17,470 --> 00:40:16,220
deceased are communicating with us I

903
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:17,480
don't know how well we're doing and

904
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:20,330
communicating with them but if you're

905
00:40:28,450 --> 00:40:22,730
attentive in some cases as happened with

906
00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:28,460
me a deceased spirit in this case a

907
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:31,670
really great soul can reach out to you

908
00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:34,880
so we want to be able to reach back we

909
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:37,280
want to be able to have greater

910
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:38,810
communication to increase our knowledge

911
00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:41,570
so I say it's equally about knowledge as

912
00:40:47,050 --> 00:40:43,780
it is about love it's equally about

913
00:40:49,450 --> 00:40:47,060
broadening our perspective of what is

914
00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:49,460
this universe we're living in all about

915
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:51,020
how does it function how does it operate

916
00:40:56,410 --> 00:40:53,810
because we're only seeing a small

917
00:40:58,990 --> 00:40:56,420
picture of it Alex there's one other

918
00:41:01,630 --> 00:40:59,000
point that you raised that I really

919
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:01,640
wanted to address before we home stretch

920
00:41:06,910 --> 00:41:04,160
this synchronicity

921
00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:06,920
you talked about okay there was a setup

922
00:41:13,329 --> 00:41:10,910
you know that fari mentioned I'll drop

923
00:41:14,980 --> 00:41:13,339
you a line if it's if it's true and he

924
00:41:16,839 --> 00:41:14,990
said it almost jokingly and it was

925
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:16,849
literally a line that he dropped me it

926
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:20,720
was a a change in a document using ink

927
00:41:26,140 --> 00:41:23,990
that was a message from him that was the

928
00:41:28,089 --> 00:41:26,150
first puzzle and chemists got involved

929
00:41:29,770 --> 00:41:28,099
in studying that ink and the more they

930
00:41:31,569 --> 00:41:29,780
got involved the more baffled they

931
00:41:34,329 --> 00:41:31,579
became and their studies went on for

932
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:34,339
three years and became fruitless at

933
00:41:41,770 --> 00:41:36,079
being able to reproduce what happened to

934
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:41,780
me but synchronicities that the skeptics

935
00:41:47,740 --> 00:41:45,490
often just dismisses mere coincidence um

936
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:47,750
well I don't think that they're always

937
00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:50,450
mere coincidence at all I think they

938
00:41:56,559 --> 00:41:53,720
have meaning when these highly

939
00:41:59,890 --> 00:41:56,569
improbable things happen that are like a

940
00:42:03,099 --> 00:41:59,900
precursor and do have a sense of

941
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:03,109
prescience for what's going to happen in

942
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:05,569
the future it happened to me in two ways

943
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:10,250
in this project first I'll say when I

944
00:42:15,069 --> 00:42:12,710
was a boy growing up in Maryland and

945
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:15,079
wanted to be a filmmaker was reading far

946
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:17,359
tease monster magazine and I was making

947
00:42:22,180 --> 00:42:20,089
amateur monster movies I entered a

948
00:42:24,849 --> 00:42:22,190
contest in his magazine and I was one of

949
00:42:28,059 --> 00:42:24,859
the winners in it and I got publicity in

950
00:42:30,819 --> 00:42:28,069
his magazine well and he sent me a

951
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:30,829
letter I was 13 years old if I remember

952
00:42:36,970 --> 00:42:34,010
correctly to master movie maker Paul

953
00:42:40,029 --> 00:42:36,980
David's and I kept that letter always

954
00:42:44,609 --> 00:42:40,039
and I kept the envelope and the stamps

955
00:42:47,289 --> 00:42:44,619
on it were stamps of Santa Fe New Mexico

956
00:42:51,940 --> 00:42:47,299
the palace of the governors of Santa Fe

957
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:51,950
and Edgar Allan Poe now I had never been

958
00:42:55,630 --> 00:42:53,930
like west of Virginia at that point my

959
00:42:57,609 --> 00:42:55,640
life I didn't know that I would grow up

960
00:42:58,839 --> 00:42:57,619
to live on the west coast and that Santa

961
00:43:00,670 --> 00:42:58,849
Fe would be very important to me

962
00:43:04,420 --> 00:43:00,680
eventually and that I went on a home

963
00:43:08,049 --> 00:43:04,430
there one day I didn't know when I was a

964
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:08,059
boy getting this envelope that this

965
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:11,450
incident involving fari and afterlife

966
00:43:17,230 --> 00:43:14,690
would happen in my second home in Santa

967
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:17,240
Fe and that

968
00:43:23,020 --> 00:43:19,250
the day after the ink incident happened

969
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,030
a very perplexing electronic voice

970
00:43:30,220 --> 00:43:25,520
phenomena would be captured on video

971
00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:30,230
tape involving Edgar Allan Poe so the

972
00:43:35,260 --> 00:43:32,630
two stamps i received on the congratula

973
00:43:38,109 --> 00:43:35,270
tory envelope when i was 13 po and santa

974
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:38,119
fe came together in reality for me

975
00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:41,890
decades later when there was something a

976
00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:45,260
paranormal involving po that happened to

977
00:43:52,359 --> 00:43:49,220
me in my house in Santa Fe at the time

978
00:43:56,350 --> 00:43:52,369
that fari Ackerman was communicating

979
00:43:57,850 --> 00:43:56,360
with me with an ink message so right you

980
00:43:59,950 --> 00:43:57,860
know for skaters they say what are you

981
00:44:02,530 --> 00:43:59,960
proposing time travel you know how it

982
00:44:04,530 --> 00:44:02,540
but exactly but see that's I think where

983
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:04,540
we're kind of caught up in this

984
00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:07,910
skeptical reductionistic materialistic

985
00:44:13,630 --> 00:44:11,240
you know versus the paranormal

986
00:44:16,090 --> 00:44:13,640
explanation and what I'm suggesting is

987
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:16,100
we kind of have to move past that and

988
00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:17,960
look you how to do and we're look for

989
00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:19,730
the next level but we can't do that if

990
00:44:24,220 --> 00:44:21,470
we keep holding on to the rational mind

991
00:44:27,849 --> 00:44:24,230
and we can't do that if we keep holding

992
00:44:30,730 --> 00:44:27,859
on to the rational minds need to take

993
00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:30,740
the paranormal and jam it back into a

994
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:32,180
box I mentioned a minute ago Dean

995
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:34,850
readings for the first person to do or

996
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:36,650
one of the first people researchers to

997
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:38,480
do the presentiment experiment are you

998
00:44:41,980 --> 00:44:40,010
familiar with those experiments I've

999
00:44:43,570 --> 00:44:41,990
rented with Dean Radin which experiments

1000
00:44:45,970 --> 00:44:43,580
are you talking about this is experiment

1001
00:44:47,650 --> 00:44:45,980
he's done been replicated Oh many many

1002
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:47,660
many times many different labs across

1003
00:44:51,099 --> 00:44:49,910
the the world and there's other versions

1004
00:44:53,740 --> 00:44:51,109
of this experiment but here's the

1005
00:44:56,650 --> 00:44:53,750
simplest one this experiment done for

1006
00:44:58,060 --> 00:44:56,660
years with college psychology freshmen

1007
00:45:00,280 --> 00:44:58,070
sit you down in front of the computer

1008
00:45:01,930 --> 00:45:00,290
i'm going to show you an image and image

1009
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:01,940
is going to pop up it might be

1010
00:45:06,790 --> 00:45:03,650
pornographic it might be fairly violent

1011
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:06,800
or it might be puppies on green lawn and

1012
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:08,900
then i'm going to measure through some

1013
00:45:14,410 --> 00:45:11,530
means various different means your

1014
00:45:16,270 --> 00:45:14,420
biological skin response of the dilation

1015
00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:16,280
or your pupil or whatever right so

1016
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:18,080
that's what i'm going to do electro

1017
00:45:21,580 --> 00:45:19,520
definitely and they've done all the

1018
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:21,590
different ones so his twist on the

1019
00:45:26,020 --> 00:45:23,930
experiment is to say okay we know that

1020
00:45:28,270 --> 00:45:26,030
how long it takes you to react to the

1021
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:28,280
image in this light do you react to the

1022
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:29,990
image before it's displayed on the

1023
00:45:33,970 --> 00:45:31,010
screen do you

1024
00:45:37,540 --> 00:45:33,980
image before it is even selected by the

1025
00:45:40,330 --> 00:45:37,550
computer the answer is is yes now we

1026
00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:40,340
take it over into the medium realm you

1027
00:45:44,110 --> 00:45:42,500
know the assisted after death

1028
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:44,120
communication which we all call

1029
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,930
mediumship and we we hear that people

1030
00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:50,000
can predict what's going to happen in

1031
00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:52,220
someone's life key events happens over

1032
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:53,720
and over again we move into the

1033
00:45:58,510 --> 00:45:56,090
after-death communication that comes as

1034
00:46:00,400 --> 00:45:58,520
part of the near-death experience in

1035
00:46:02,290 --> 00:46:00,410
near death as a misnomer because many of

1036
00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:02,300
these people do in fact die clinically

1037
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:05,420
and what do they say they say my life

1038
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:07,760
was planned out I reviewed my life and I

1039
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:09,770
reviewed future events in my life this

1040
00:46:14,410 --> 00:46:12,050
is said all the time I remember between

1041
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:14,420
lives when I was planning my life so all

1042
00:46:21,610 --> 00:46:18,380
these things give in a contar early

1043
00:46:23,260 --> 00:46:21,620
different perspective on all the things

1044
00:46:26,350 --> 00:46:23,270
that you're talking about right so now

1045
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:26,360
we have to look at the stamps a little

1046
00:46:32,170 --> 00:46:29,090
bit differently we have to look at the

1047
00:46:33,820 --> 00:46:32,180
the message that Forry gave you

1048
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:33,830
beforehand you know I'll drop your line

1049
00:46:38,290 --> 00:46:35,480
we have to look at it a little bit

1050
00:46:39,970 --> 00:46:38,300
differently and when we do it we can do

1051
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:39,980
it with some of the tools of science but

1052
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:42,560
we are going to have to leave we're

1053
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:45,050
going to have to so totally turn that

1054
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:47,930
upside down that I don't think we can I

1055
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:50,150
think we have to be realistic about

1056
00:46:55,300 --> 00:46:52,250
where we can go and what it's going to

1057
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:55,310
take to get us there and I think I'm

1058
00:46:59,890 --> 00:46:57,050
with you that we have to have a more

1059
00:47:03,670 --> 00:46:59,900
open environment but then that gets into

1060
00:47:05,050 --> 00:47:03,680
a hole deeper political realm of does

1061
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:05,060
that really make the trains run on time

1062
00:47:10,660 --> 00:47:08,030
kind of thing Alex you know I'm reminded

1063
00:47:13,090 --> 00:47:10,670
of I always sort of like to tell the

1064
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:13,100
parable about Moses and the promised

1065
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:17,210
land and he spent 40 years going across

1066
00:47:23,410 --> 00:47:19,630
the desert with the tribes of Israel to

1067
00:47:25,390 --> 00:47:23,420
settle them in the promised land and he

1068
00:47:27,730 --> 00:47:25,400
wanted a generation to die off in a new

1069
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:27,740
generation to settle there a generation

1070
00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:31,310
who hadn't been slaves and I think that

1071
00:47:35,980 --> 00:47:33,140
a lot of the changes in worldview that

1072
00:47:37,930 --> 00:47:35,990
happen in all of human society happened

1073
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:37,940
through the death of one generation and

1074
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:41,090
being replaced by another more than

1075
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:43,510
people changing their minds

1076
00:47:48,780 --> 00:47:47,200
you know people died and they replaced

1077
00:47:51,410 --> 00:47:48,790
by somebody who has a different world

1078
00:47:54,510 --> 00:47:51,420
view because the information available

1079
00:47:58,500 --> 00:47:54,520
you know has increased and has changed

1080
00:48:00,930 --> 00:47:58,510
uh it's a kind of a dark way of looking

1081
00:48:03,870 --> 00:48:00,940
at it but it's it's a fact but it

1082
00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:03,880
presupposes the this kind of time factor

1083
00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:06,040
again that I just don't think when we

1084
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:08,140
really pull apart consciousness in our

1085
00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:11,170
best science it's just not there when we

1086
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:14,260
talk about past future next lives it's

1087
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:17,110
it's not what we think and this is what

1088
00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:19,330
the Mystics have told us all along and

1089
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:20,980
that's what pushes us back you know and

1090
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:22,480
you didn't want to go too far to the

1091
00:48:27,390 --> 00:48:24,790
love thing but that what's pushes his

1092
00:48:30,330 --> 00:48:27,400
back is too all there is is the now you

1093
00:48:32,090 --> 00:48:30,340
know the now and what we do right now

1094
00:48:34,650 --> 00:48:32,100
and we should be very humble about

1095
00:48:35,970 --> 00:48:34,660
really any kind of contribution we make

1096
00:48:37,620 --> 00:48:35,980
or about something that someone's going

1097
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:37,630
to do in the future just make sure

1098
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:39,910
you're taking care of business at home

1099
00:48:45,540 --> 00:48:43,150
which means inside your self and with

1100
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,550
the people that you interact with and

1101
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:46,960
that you're doing the right thing there

1102
00:48:51,570 --> 00:48:49,210
and everything takes care of itself yeah

1103
00:48:57,330 --> 00:48:51,580
it's a good philosophy I think it works

1104
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:57,340
I got i try to subscribe to that and and

1105
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:00,880
to never lose the sense of amazement and

1106
00:49:06,270 --> 00:49:04,210
and and surprise because the universe is

1107
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:06,280
always revealing a little more of itself

1108
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:10,240
to us you know as as as time goes on so

1109
00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:12,310
the things we thought were impossible

1110
00:49:19,650 --> 00:49:16,420
when we were young become fact you know

1111
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:19,660
when when were when we're older and for

1112
00:49:25,050 --> 00:49:22,240
me part of this transition makes me much

1113
00:49:27,210 --> 00:49:25,060
more open-minded to religious people

1114
00:49:30,090 --> 00:49:27,220
then I was when I was a kid growing up

1115
00:49:32,730 --> 00:49:30,100
with agnostic parents who felt that you

1116
00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:32,740
know prayer was for the week and that

1117
00:49:39,540 --> 00:49:35,950
there was no foundation in any of the

1118
00:49:42,510 --> 00:49:39,550
claimed biblical miracles and I don't

1119
00:49:44,730 --> 00:49:42,520
feel that now I feel like any of those

1120
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:44,740
biblical miracles could be true now in

1121
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:46,450
the universe that I live in I can't

1122
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:48,250
reject it doesn't mean that they are

1123
00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:49,570
true it doesn't mean that they're not

1124
00:49:54,450 --> 00:49:52,750
myths but I i have a new mindset where i

1125
00:49:56,850 --> 00:49:54,460
could say well you know they could be

1126
00:49:57,690 --> 00:49:56,860
you know that that could happen at the

1127
00:50:00,840 --> 00:49:57,700
very least we have

1128
00:50:03,330 --> 00:50:00,850
grant the religious that in the big

1129
00:50:05,850 --> 00:50:03,340
picture science versus religion they're

1130
00:50:08,580 --> 00:50:05,860
scoring more points as we march forward

1131
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:08,590
and understand consciousness the points

1132
00:50:11,970 --> 00:50:10,210
are piling up on their side they might

1133
00:50:13,740 --> 00:50:11,980
not have they might have a lot of things

1134
00:50:16,050 --> 00:50:13,750
wrong in terms of their books and their

1135
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:16,060
myths and stuff like that but big

1136
00:50:20,340 --> 00:50:18,130
picture they got it right rigidity I

1137
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:20,350
think is is wrong the rigidity of

1138
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:22,510
religious structure I'll never subscribe

1139
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:25,090
to you know the the rule following and

1140
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:28,270
you know if you you know all the things

1141
00:50:33,660 --> 00:50:31,000
that go with it being raised with fear

1142
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:33,670
of sinning and you know hell and

1143
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:35,440
damnation and all those things now none

1144
00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:37,450
of that is ever going to hold any weight

1145
00:50:45,330 --> 00:50:41,400
for me but the concept of a miracle uh

1146
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:45,340
yeah it's it's intervention from

1147
00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:49,710
somewhere else yeah in our world and

1148
00:50:54,330 --> 00:50:52,270
praying for a miracle you know is it

1149
00:50:56,910 --> 00:50:54,340
possible that you could have the result

1150
00:50:59,940 --> 00:50:56,920
that you pray yeah it could be I'm open

1151
00:51:01,680 --> 00:50:59,950
to all of it now yeah that's it so Paul

1152
00:51:03,330 --> 00:51:01,690
word you where do you go from here with

1153
00:51:05,340 --> 00:51:03,340
the book both with the book and atheists

1154
00:51:07,830 --> 00:51:05,350
in heaven and I'm sure I actually

1155
00:51:10,110 --> 00:51:07,840
noticed an IMDb that you have some more

1156
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:10,120
film projects I'm not surprised s in the

1157
00:51:16,020 --> 00:51:11,680
words they might not be related to this

1158
00:51:17,730 --> 00:51:16,030
but are you are you done publicly with

1159
00:51:19,350 --> 00:51:17,740
after death communication in terms of

1160
00:51:20,850 --> 00:51:19,360
books and films or will that find its

1161
00:51:22,890 --> 00:51:20,860
way into your work in the future or what

1162
00:51:24,330 --> 00:51:22,900
do you think well it's always a process

1163
00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:24,340
of discovery for me because I never

1164
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:26,260
quite know what's going to you know come

1165
00:51:36,090 --> 00:51:31,570
next I I made a film with a Latino cast

1166
00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:36,100
called before we say goodbye which has a

1167
00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:38,350
life after death theme and it's very

1168
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:40,780
undiscovered in the u.s. I'm really

1169
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:43,510
surprised by that in Latin America it's

1170
00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:47,050
been a huge success Universal picked it

1171
00:51:51,870 --> 00:51:48,880
up they dubbed it into Spanish and

1172
00:51:54,810 --> 00:51:51,880
Portuguese and it's shown on all the

1173
00:51:58,050 --> 00:51:54,820
cable channels for years now a few years

1174
00:52:01,050 --> 00:51:58,060
in Latin America in the u.s. it showed

1175
00:52:04,830 --> 00:52:01,060
in Spanish on Telemundo once it's

1176
00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:04,840
recently been added to amazon prime it's

1177
00:52:10,980 --> 00:52:08,590
a wonderful hopeful story with a kind of

1178
00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:10,990
a Catholic orientation toward it because

1179
00:52:16,589 --> 00:52:11,680
it's about

1180
00:52:19,319 --> 00:52:16,599
and devout belief in Our Lady of

1181
00:52:21,420 --> 00:52:19,329
Guadalupe and all the miracles connected

1182
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:21,430
with that and it's not a documentary

1183
00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:24,130
it's a story film so I commend people to

1184
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:28,510
I recommend to people to watch that it's

1185
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:30,010
on amazon prime and if you're a prime

1186
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:31,359
member you see it for free and then

1187
00:52:36,930 --> 00:52:34,569
there's a wonderful DVD so that dealt

1188
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:36,940
with the life after death theme and

1189
00:52:46,620 --> 00:52:42,730
prayer and miracles my film an artist

1190
00:52:48,299 --> 00:52:46,630
the artist and the shaman also dealt

1191
00:52:52,109 --> 00:52:48,309
with life after death and the question

1192
00:52:54,809 --> 00:52:52,119
of reincarnation my film starry night

1193
00:52:58,859 --> 00:52:54,819
about Vincent van Gogh it was a fantasy

1194
00:53:00,569 --> 00:52:58,869
yes but the fantasy was what if Vincent

1195
00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:00,579
van Gogh could come back today for a

1196
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:02,140
hundred days and discover that he was a

1197
00:53:09,390 --> 00:53:06,660
success after all and I played with that

1198
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:09,400
with that story so again it's the

1199
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:10,990
concept of someone returning from the

1200
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:13,510
dead it embeds itself into a lot of

1201
00:53:18,990 --> 00:53:16,450
these projects I've done now my upcoming

1202
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:19,000
film that will be out this year it'll be

1203
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:21,730
a blu-ray DVD it'll go on television

1204
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:24,609
it's called Marilyn Monroe Declassified

1205
00:53:33,319 --> 00:53:30,220
and it's a fascinating look at the

1206
00:53:37,170 --> 00:53:33,329
mysteries around Marilyn Monroe's life

1207
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:37,180
and her death and the attention she

1208
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:39,250
attracted to herself from the FBI and

1209
00:53:45,599 --> 00:53:42,640
the CIA and where that led for me that

1210
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:45,609
was a mystery story the life after death

1211
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:48,400
aspect there well in an atheist in

1212
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:49,930
heaven in the book we've been talking

1213
00:53:53,970 --> 00:53:51,730
about there's a chapter where I talk

1214
00:53:55,980 --> 00:53:53,980
about the strange anomalies that

1215
00:54:01,710 --> 00:53:55,990
happened related to Marilyn Monroe while

1216
00:54:03,089 --> 00:54:01,720
I was making that movie as if i was you

1217
00:54:06,990 --> 00:54:03,099
know as if there was a helping hand

1218
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:07,000
there it's an unsolved death and I've

1219
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:11,049
worked on solving it it in my view was

1220
00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:13,270
not probable suicide which is what the

1221
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:17,849
coroner said I do think that that the

1222
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,210
wonderful lady was murdered and I do

1223
00:54:25,550 --> 00:54:24,400
think I've really gotten to the bottom

1224
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:25,560
of it

1225
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,000
so and I think I was helped in making

1226
00:54:33,330 --> 00:54:29,920
Marilyn Monroe Declassified so there's

1227
00:54:37,050 --> 00:54:33,340
that too and as far as where it goes

1228
00:54:39,690 --> 00:54:37,060
from here Alex I like your listeners to

1229
00:54:45,330 --> 00:54:39,700
know I'm a very serious painter I'm an

1230
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:45,340
artist paul davids hyphen artist calm

1231
00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:50,170
you can see my work the rio grande

1232
00:54:55,530 --> 00:54:52,660
Galerie in Albuquerque has just picked

1233
00:54:57,630 --> 00:54:55,540
up for my paintings very old

1234
00:55:00,660 --> 00:54:57,640
distinguished gallery I'm a good company

1235
00:55:03,540 --> 00:55:00,670
there gallery Tesla and Sedona has some

1236
00:55:07,770 --> 00:55:03,550
of my work so I think they'll be much

1237
00:55:10,410 --> 00:55:07,780
more time spent in building that legacy

1238
00:55:14,910 --> 00:55:10,420
also as a painter in addition to the the

1239
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:14,920
writing I've done one last thing on the

1240
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:18,730
the writing I am I don't I won't call it

1241
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:22,960
a memoir exactly but I i do feel i have

1242
00:55:30,990 --> 00:55:27,780
begun to write about this extraordinary

1243
00:55:32,970 --> 00:55:31,000
storied life I've been able to live in

1244
00:55:35,550 --> 00:55:32,980
Hollywood getting to work on lots of

1245
00:55:38,609 --> 00:55:35,560
projects starting with the Transformers

1246
00:55:42,660 --> 00:55:38,619
cartoons and working on the star wars

1247
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:42,670
books and all of these movies so i am

1248
00:55:51,150 --> 00:55:48,970
writing a a retrospective to preserve

1249
00:55:53,099 --> 00:55:51,160
the wonderful adventures that were in

1250
00:55:55,260 --> 00:55:53,109
all of that and share them and that

1251
00:55:57,900 --> 00:55:55,270
that's something i'd like to finish it's

1252
00:56:00,450 --> 00:55:57,910
on my bucket list well best of luck with

1253
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:00,460
all that and i think you've done a real

1254
00:56:04,770 --> 00:56:02,890
terrific work you and Gary have with an

1255
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:04,780
atheist in heaven and with the other

1256
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:07,450
films we talked about so certainly wish

1257
00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:09,849
you the best in thanks again so much for

1258
00:56:15,329 --> 00:56:12,790
coming on skeptical Paul thank you Alex

1259
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:15,339
it's been a real pleasure I covered a

1260
00:56:18,990 --> 00:56:16,930
lot of ground and I'm very happy about

1261
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:19,000
that and I was going to bring this up

1262
00:56:22,140 --> 00:56:20,410
but it would we kind of spent enough

1263
00:56:24,900 --> 00:56:22,150
time on the skeptics you know yeah but

1264
00:56:26,579 --> 00:56:24,910
here's the the skeptical thing and I

1265
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:26,589
like when I was researching the show I

1266
00:56:30,329 --> 00:56:28,690
went to skeptic magazine you know and I

1267
00:56:32,430 --> 00:56:30,339
read this is a great of a great post

1268
00:56:34,290 --> 00:56:32,440
from a skeptic Michael schirmer's

1269
00:56:38,460 --> 00:56:34,300
magazine skeptic magazine and he's

1270
00:56:40,109 --> 00:56:38,470
really dissing Schwartz's research

1271
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:40,119
and he said I'll read you this and I'll

1272
00:56:43,380 --> 00:56:42,010
maybe I might even throw this back into

1273
00:56:44,790 --> 00:56:43,390
the show but he goes here's the poster

1274
00:56:47,370 --> 00:56:44,800
from skeptics magazine Michael

1275
00:56:49,620 --> 00:56:47,380
schirmer's website with regard to Gary

1276
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:49,630
Schwartz's research the whole study is

1277
00:56:55,290 --> 00:56:52,570
rubbish how does he know that ghosts are

1278
00:56:57,570 --> 00:56:55,300
inside the boxes these are the boxes

1279
00:57:00,120 --> 00:56:57,580
that are inside Gary Schwartz's photon

1280
00:57:02,849 --> 00:57:00,130
gatherer that he uses to measure this in

1281
00:57:06,359 --> 00:57:02,859
the boxes could have been unicorns

1282
00:57:10,109 --> 00:57:06,369
dragons or even God Himself in a strange

1283
00:57:13,980 --> 00:57:10,119
twisted way this person's right in that

1284
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:13,990
we don't know we hypothesize that it's

1285
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:16,330
ackerman and that Ackerman has some

1286
00:57:20,910 --> 00:57:18,670
limits to how we can communicate and how

1287
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:20,920
he can interact with us and all these

1288
00:57:24,359 --> 00:57:23,050
things become assumptions I wish you

1289
00:57:27,390 --> 00:57:24,369
could hear what happened to your voice

1290
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:27,400
as you were speaking to me if it's like

1291
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:30,430
you can't imagine how the sound became

1292
00:57:33,900 --> 00:57:32,650
distorted well alright so maybe

1293
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:33,910
somebody's playing with us right now

1294
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:35,770
here at the end of the show but yeah

1295
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,490
okay so it could be dragons and unicorns

1296
00:57:44,579 --> 00:57:41,040
disguised as Forrest J Ackerman or

1297
00:57:46,260 --> 00:57:44,589
photons of light thanks again to paul

1298
00:57:48,060 --> 00:57:46,270
davids for joining me today on skeptic

1299
00:57:49,740 --> 00:57:48,070
oh the one question i tee up from this

1300
00:57:53,609 --> 00:57:49,750
interview is the same question I'd ask

1301
00:57:57,060 --> 00:57:53,619
Paul what would you like to see science

1302
00:58:00,109 --> 00:57:57,070
however you define science do to improve

1303
00:58:02,250 --> 00:58:00,119
our understanding of after death

1304
00:58:04,109 --> 00:58:02,260
communication so let me know your

1305
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:04,119
thoughts through the skeptical website

1306
00:58:08,579 --> 00:58:06,730
on the forum facebook email how are you

1307
00:58:09,810 --> 00:58:08,589
like to do it I just think it's kind of

1308
00:58:11,370 --> 00:58:09,820
collage throughout that question because

1309
00:58:13,140 --> 00:58:11,380
I like connecting with people listen to

1310
00:58:14,970 --> 00:58:13,150
his show and hearing what they have to

1311
00:58:16,980 --> 00:58:14,980
say and I like throwing out these

1312
00:58:19,710 --> 00:58:16,990
questions and so we have somewhat of a

1313
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:19,720
common central point to kind of focus on

1314
00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:21,609
remember by the way you know if you've

1315
00:58:25,290 --> 00:58:23,710
listened to this podcast out of sequence

1316
00:58:26,970 --> 00:58:25,300
which I do all the time I listen to a

1317
00:58:28,770 --> 00:58:26,980
ton of podcast but I'll be listening to

1318
00:58:30,900 --> 00:58:28,780
something from three or four months ago

1319
00:58:33,210 --> 00:58:30,910
and I go wow I have a question I wish I

1320
00:58:35,070 --> 00:58:33,220
could talk to somebody about that hey

1321
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:35,080
feel free to do that you know join the

1322
00:58:40,650 --> 00:58:37,810
forum post it people do a really good

1323
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:40,660
job of staying up on stuff even if it's

1324
00:58:45,089 --> 00:58:42,880
been a few months ago and I try to do as

1325
00:58:47,579 --> 00:58:45,099
well so so don't feel just because a

1326
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:47,589
show is a little bit older you can't

1327
00:58:51,210 --> 00:58:49,750
connect with somebody about it that's

1328
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:51,220
the fun thing about

1329
00:58:55,710 --> 00:58:53,410
casting so I have a number of

1330
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:55,720
interesting shows coming up more shows

1331
00:59:00,210 --> 00:58:58,210
this summer some other projects i'm

1332
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:00,220
working on do stay with me for all of